Chapter 4

SECTION 13For I do not agree with those who have lately begun to maintain that souls perish together with bodies and that death destroys everything. With me the authority of the ancients carries greater weight: either that of our own ancestors, who accorded such sacred rites to the dead—which they certainly would not have done had they thought those rites in no way concerned them—or that of those who once lived in this land and, by their institutions and teachings, educated Magna Graecia, which now indeed has been destroyed but then was flourishing; or else the authority of that man whom Apollo’s oracle judged the wisest of all. He did not say one thing at one time and another at another, as most men do, but always maintained the same doctrine: that the souls of human beings are divine; that when they have departed from the body, the return to heaven lies open to them; and that the path is swiftest for every soul that is best and most just.

SECTION 14Scipio held this same belief. Indeed, as though he had a presentiment, a very few days before his death, when Philus and Manilius and several others were present, and you too, Scaevola, had come with me, he discoursed for three days on the commonwealth; and almost the final subject of that discussion was the immortality of souls, a doctrine that he said he had heard from Africanus in a dream. If it is true that at death the soul of every good man most readily flies forth, as from the prison and fetters of the body, whose journey to the gods can we suppose to have been easier than Scipio’s? Therefore I fear that to mourn his fate would be the part of one who envies him rather than of one who loves him. But if the other view is nearer the truth, and souls and bodies suffer the same destruction and no consciousness remains, then, just as there is nothing good in death, there is surely nothing evil. For when sensation is lost, a man becomes just as though he had never been born at all; and yet we rejoice that Scipio was born, and this state, for as long as it endures, will rejoice in it.

SECTION 15Therefore, as I said above, all went exceedingly well with him, but less happily with me, since it would have been more fitting that, as I entered life before him, so I should have departed from it before him. Yet I take such pleasure in the recollection of our friendship that I seem to have lived a blessed life because I lived with Scipio. With him I shared concern for public and private affairs; with him I shared both home and military service; and between us there existed that in which the whole power of friendship lies: the most complete harmony of purposes, pursuits, and opinions. And so I take less pleasure in that reputation for wisdom which Fannius mentioned a moment ago—especially since it is undeserved—than in the hope that the memory of our friendship will be everlasting. This is all the dearer to me because, through all the ages, scarcely three or four pairs of friends are named; and among them, I seem justified in hoping that the friendship of Scipio and Laelius will be known to posterity.

SECTION 16FANNIUS. That must surely be so, Laelius. But since you have mentioned friendship and we have leisure, you would do me a very great kindness—and, I hope, Scaevola as well—if, just as you are accustomed to discuss other subjects when questions are put to you, you would now discuss friendship: what you think of it, what you judge its nature to be, and what precepts you would give concerning it.SCAEVOLA. It would indeed give me pleasure; and just as I was about to make that very request of you, Fannius anticipated me. Therefore you would do us both a very great kindness.

SECTION 13For I do not agree with those who have recently begun to argue that souls perish together with bodies and that death destroys everything. The authority of the ancients carries more weight with me: either that of our own ancestors, who assigned such sacred rites to the dead—something they certainly would not have done if they had believed that those rites did not concern them at all—or that of the men who lived in this land and educated with their institutions and teachings the region of Magna Graecia, which has now been destroyed but was flourishing then—or that of the man whom Apollo’s oracle judged the wisest of all. Unlike most people, he did not say one thing at one time and something else at another, but always maintained the same position: that human souls are divine, that when they have departed from the body a return to heaven lies open to them, and that this return is easiest for each person who has been best and most just.

SECTION 14Scipio held the same view. Indeed, as though he had a foreknowledge of what was coming, only a very few days before his death, when Philus and Manilius and several others were present and you too, Scaevola, had come with me, he spent three days discussing the republic. Almost the final subject of that discussion was the immortality of souls, a teaching that he said he had heard from Africanus in a vision during sleep. If it is true that at death the soul of each excellent person flies away most easily, as though escaping from the prison and chains of the body, whose journey to the gods can we suppose was easier than Scipio’s? Therefore I fear that to mourn his fate would be the conduct of an envious person rather than a friend. But if the other view is truer—that souls and bodies undergo the same destruction and no sensation remains—then, just as there is nothing good in death, there is certainly nothing bad either. For when sensation is lost, the result is the same as if he had never been born at all. Yet we rejoice that he was born, and this state too will celebrate his birth for as long as it exists.

SECTION 15Therefore, as I said above, things turned out as well as possible for him, but less favorably for me, since it would have been fairer for me, having entered life first, also to leave it first. Nevertheless, I take such pleasure in the memory of our friendship that I believe I have lived a blessed life because I lived with Scipio. With him I shared concern for both public and private affairs; with him I shared both home and military service; and between us there was that in which the entire power of friendship consists: complete agreement in wishes, interests, and opinions. And so I am not as pleased by that reputation for wisdom which Fannius mentioned just now—especially since it is false—as I am by my hope that the memory of our friendship will last forever. This matters all the more to me because from all the ages scarcely three or four pairs of friends are named; and among that company, I seem able to hope that the friendship of Scipio and Laelius will be known to posterity.

SECTION 16FANNIUS. That certainly must be so, Laelius. But since you have mentioned friendship and we have time to spare, you would do me a great favor—and, I hope, Scaevola as well—if, just as you usually do with other subjects when you are asked about them, you would now discuss friendship: what you think about it, what you believe its nature to be, and what principles you would offer.SCAEVOLA. It would indeed please me, and when I was just about to make this same request of you, Fannius anticipated me. Therefore you would do both of us a very great favor.