Chapter 2
Original Latin
3 Quibus actis Quid ergo? inquit ille, quoniam oratorias exercitationes non tu quidem, ut spero, reliquisti, sed certe philosophiam illis anteposuisti, possumne aliquid audire? Tu vero, inquam, vel audire vel dicere; nec enim, id quod recte existimas, oratoria illa studia deserui, quibus etiam te incendi, quamquam flagrantissumum acceperam, nec ea, quae nunc tracto, minuunt, sed augent potius illam facultatem. Nam cum hoc genere philosophiae, quod nos sequimur, magnam habet orator societatem; subtilitatem enim ab Academia mutuatur et ei vicissim reddit ubertatem orationis et ornamenta dicendi. Quam ob rem, inquam, quoniam utriusque studii nostra possessio est, hodie, utro frui malis, optio sit tua. Tum Hirtius: Gratissumum, inquit, et tuorum omnium simile; nihil enim umquam abnuit meo studio voluntas tua.
4 Sed quoniam rhetorica mihi vestra sunt nota teque in iis et audivimus saepe et audiemus atque hanc Academicorum contra propositum disputandi consuetudinem indicant te suscepisse Tusculanae disputationes, ponere aliquid, ad quod audiam, si tibi non est molestum, volo. An mihi, inquam, potest quicquam esse molestum, quod tibi gratum futurum sit? Sed ita audies, ut Romanum hominem, ut timide ingredientem ad hoc genus disputandi, ut longo intervallo haec studia repetentem. Ita, inquit, audiam te disputantem, ut ea lego, quae scripsisti. Proinde ordire. Considamus hic.
Musean translation
Mouseia’s complete machine-assisted Musean translation, made directly from the surviving Latin in separate source-only tasks. Sections 1–48 and five fragments/testimonia follow Müller’s 1915 edition; lost passages remain marked. Perseus source and these derived editions CC BY-SA 4.0.
3 When we had finished, he said, “Well, then? You have not, I hope, abandoned your exercises in oratory, but you have certainly given philosophy precedence over them. May I hear something?”
“You certainly may,” I said, “or speak yourself, if you prefer. For, as you rightly suppose, I have not deserted those rhetorical studies with which I kindled your own enthusiasm—though it was already blazing when you came to me. Nor do my present pursuits diminish that faculty; they enlarge it. The orator has much in common with the school of philosophy I follow: he borrows precision from the Academy and repays it with fullness of expression and the ornaments of eloquence. And so,” I said, “since both fields are ours, today the choice of which to enjoy shall be yours.”
“That is most welcome,” Hirtius replied, “and just like everything you do. Your goodwill has never refused any wish of mine to learn.
4 “But I know your teachings on rhetoric, and have often heard you speak on them and shall do so again. And since your Tusculan Disputations show that you have adopted the Academic practice of arguing against a thesis, I should like to put forward a proposition and hear your reply, if that is no trouble to you.”
“Can anything be a trouble to me,” I said, “that will give you pleasure? But you will be hearing a Roman, someone venturing cautiously into this manner of debate, someone returning to these studies after a long interval.”
“I shall listen to your arguments,” he said, “in the same spirit in which I read your writings. So begin. Let us sit here.”
Plain English translation
Mouseia’s complete machine-assisted direct-Latin Plain English translation. Initial drafts used separate Latin-only tasks; later source-based editorial revisions were made by a reviewer with prior editorial access to Musean, not from its English wording. Includes all 48 sections and five fragments/testimonia, with lost passages marked. Perseus source and these derived editions CC BY-SA 4.0.
3 When we had finished, he said, “Well, then? You haven't given up practicing public speaking, I hope. But you have certainly put philosophy ahead of it. Could I hear something?”
“Of course,” I said. “You can listen or speak yourself. As you rightly suppose, I haven't abandoned the study of public speaking. I helped kindle your enthusiasm for it too, though you were already on fire when you came to me. My present work doesn't reduce my ability as a speaker. It actually improves it. A speaker has a lot in common with the kind of philosophy we follow. He borrows precise reasoning from the Academy and gives it richness of expression and verbal polish in return. So,” I said, “since both fields belong to us, you can choose which one you would rather enjoy today.”
“That's very kind,” Hirtius replied, “and just like everything you do. You have never refused to help with anything I wanted to study.
4 “But I'm familiar with your teaching on rhetoric. I've heard you speak on it often, and I will again. Your Tusculan Disputations show that you've adopted the Academic practice of arguing against a proposed position. So, if you don't mind, I'd like to put forward a position and hear your response.”
“Could anything that will please you be a bother to me?” I said. “But listen to me as a Roman, someone making a cautious start in this kind of argument and returning to these studies after a long break.”
“I'll listen to your arguments in the same spirit in which I read your books,” he said. “So begin. Let's sit down here.”
About this section
Chapter 2 is part of On Fate by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is chapter 2 of 25 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
Open the work page for the full contents, every edition, and the download links, or go back to Explore to browse other complete works in the Roman tradition. The reader keeps your place when you are signed in and lets you compare the original with each translation, one edition at a time.