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Plato · Complete work

Stephanus 61

Stephanus 61 of 76. Read it here for reference, or continue through the entire work without leaving the reader.

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Original Ancient Greek

61a μὲν γὰρ ἀσύστατον ὑπὸ βίας οὕτως ὕδωρ μόνον λύει, συνεστηκυῖαν δὲ πλὴν πυρὸς οὐδέν· εἴσοδος γὰρ οὐδενὶ πλὴν πυρὶ λέλειπται. τὴν δὲ ὕδατος αὖ σύνοδον τὴν μὲν βιαιοτάτην πῦρ μόνον, τὴν δὲ ἀσθενεστέραν ἀμφότερα, πῦρ τε καὶ ἀήρ, διαχεῖτον, ὁ μὲν κατὰ τὰ διάκενα, τὸ δὲ καὶ κατὰ τὰ τρίγωνα· βίᾳ δὲ ἀέρα συστάντα οὐδὲν λύει πλὴν κατὰ τὸ στοιχεῖον, ἀβίαστον δὲ κατατήκει μόνον πῦρ. τὰ δὴ τῶν συμμείκτων ἐκ γῆς τε καὶ ὕδατος σωμάτων, μέχριπερ ἂν 61b ὕδωρ αὐτοῦ τὰ τῆς γῆς διάκενα καὶ βίᾳ συμπεπιλημένα κατέχῃ, τὰ μὲν ὕδατος ἐπιόντα ἔξωθεν εἴσοδον οὐκ ἔχοντα μέρη περιρρέοντα τὸν ὅλον ὄγκον ἄτηκτον εἴασεν, τὰ δὲ πυρὸς εἰς τὰ τῶν ὑδάτων διάκενα εἰσιόντα, ὅπερ ὕδωρ γῆν, τοῦτο πῦρ [ἀέρα] ἀπεργαζόμενα, τηχθέντι τῷ κοινῷ σώματι ῥεῖν μόνα αἴτια συμβέβηκεν· τυγχάνει δὲ ταῦτα ὄντα, τὰ μὲν ἔλαττον ἔχοντα ὕδατος ἢ γῆς, τό τε περὶ τὴν ὕαλον γένος 61c ἅπαν ὅσα τε λίθων χυτὰ εἴδη καλεῖται, τὰ δὲ πλέον ὕδατος αὖ, πάντα ὅσα κηροειδῆ καὶ θυμιατικὰ σώματα συμπήγνυται.

καὶ τὰ μὲν δὴ σχήμασι κοινωνίαις τε καὶ μεταλλαγαῖς εἰς ἄλληλα πεποικιλμένα εἴδη σχεδὸν ἐπιδέδεικται· τὰ δὲ παθήματα αὐτῶν διʼ ἃς αἰτίας γέγονεν πειρατέον ἐμφανίζειν. πρῶτον μὲν οὖν ὑπάρχειν αἴσθησιν δεῖ τοῖς λεγομένοις ἀεί, σαρκὸς δὲ καὶ τῶν περὶ σάρκα γένεσιν, ψυχῆς τε ὅσον θνητόν, οὔπω διεληλύθαμεν· τυγχάνει δὲ οὔτε ταῦτα χωρὶς 61d τῶν περὶ τὰ παθήματα ὅσα αἰσθητικὰ οὔτʼ ἐκεῖνα ἄνευ τούτων δυνατὰ ἱκανῶς λεχθῆναι, τὸ δὲ ἅμα σχεδὸν οὐ δυνατόν. ὑποθετέον δὴ πρότερον θάτερα, τὰ δʼ ὑποτεθέντα ἐπάνιμεν αὖθις. ἵνα οὖν ἑξῆς τὰ παθήματα λέγηται τοῖς γένεσιν, ἔστω πρότερα ἡμῖν τὰ περὶ σῶμα καὶ ψυχὴν ὄντα. πρῶτον μὲν οὖν ᾗ πῦρ θερμὸν λέγομεν, ἴδωμεν ὧδε σκοποῦντες, τὴν διάκρισιν καὶ τομὴν αὐτοῦ περὶ τὸ σῶμα ἡμῶν γιγνομένην 61e ἐννοηθέντες. ὅτι μὲν γὰρ ὀξύ τι τὸ πάθος, πάντες σχεδὸν αἰσθανόμεθα·

ΤΙ. τὴν δὲ λεπτότητα τῶν πλευρῶν καὶ γωνιῶν ὀξύτητα τῶν τε μορίων σμικρότητα καὶ τῆς φορᾶς τὸ τάχος, οἷς πᾶσι σφοδρὸν ὂν καὶ τομὸν ὀξέως τὸ προστυχὸν ἀεὶ

Musean translation

Mouseia's complete machine-assisted Musean translation, made directly from the complete Greek text (John Burnet's Oxford edition, Perseus Digital Library) across all 76 Stephanus pages and 364 sections, including the Atlantis prologue (20d–26e), for fidelity, philosophical precision, dialogue, and structure.

61a when compact and unyielding, only water dissolves by force in this way, and of what has compacted together nothing dissolves it but fire; for an entrance has been left open to none but fire. Of water, again, in its compacted form, the most violently compacted only fire disperses, and the more weakly compacted both — fire and air — disperse, fire through the gaps, air even through the triangles; and of air compacted by force nothing dissolves it except at its element, while without force only fire melts it. Of the mixed bodies made of earth and water: so long as 61b the water in them holds the earth's gaps, packed in there by force, the parts of water coming at them from outside, having no way in, flow around the whole mass and leave it unmelted; but the parts of fire, entering into the gaps of the waters, doing to [the air] what water does to earth, have turned out to be the only causes of the common body's flowing once it has been melted through. And these, it turns out, are of two sorts: those having less water than earth — the whole genus about glass 61c and all the kinds called fusible stones; and those having more water, again — all the waxlike and combustible bodies that compact together.

And so the kinds, diversified by their shapes and by their combinations and changes into one another, have been all but fully displayed; but we must attempt to bring to light the affections they undergo and the causes through which these have come to be. First, then, sensation must always attend the things we have been naming; but the coming-to-be of flesh and of the things about the flesh, and of the soul in its mortal part, we have not yet gone through. And it happens that these cannot adequately be treated apart 61d from the affections that are objects of sensation, nor can those be treated without these — while to do both at once is almost impossible. So we must lay down one side first, and come back around again to what has been laid down. That the affections, then, may be told next after the coming-to-be, let what concerns body and soul be first for us. First, then, as to why we call fire hot, let us look at it here, considering the separation and cutting of it about our body, 61e once we have conceived what it does. For that the affection is something keen, we almost all perceive;

Timaeus: but the fineness of the sides and the sharpness of the angles, the smallness of the parts and the swiftness of the motion — with all of which it is violent and cutting, ever cutting sharply whatever it

Plain English translation

Mouseia's complete Plain English edition, made independently and directly from all 76 Stephanus pages of the Greek.

61a for only water dissolves it by force while it is still unformed, and once it is formed nothing but fire does; for no way in is left for anything but fire. And of the ways water is packed together, the tightest packing is dissolved by fire alone, and the weaker packing by both fire and air—air through the gaps, fire through the triangles as well. And nothing dissolves air that has been packed together by force, except at the level of the element; only fire melts it without force. As for bodies mixed out of earth and water, as long as 61b the water in them holds the gaps of the earth, packed together by force, the parts of water that come at them from outside have no way in; they flow around the whole mass and leave it unmelted. But the parts of fire that go into the gaps of the water, doing to the water what water does to earth—making it into [air]—are the only ones that make the shared body melt and run. And these happen to be the things that have less water than earth: the whole class of things around glass, 61c and everything that is called a kind of molten stone. And the things that have more water are all the bodies that solidify as wax-like and incense-like substances.

So the kinds that are varied among one another by their shapes, their combinations, and their transformations have now been pretty well shown. Next we must try to make clear the experiences they undergo, and the causes that produce them. First of all, perception must always be present in the things we keep talking about; but we have not yet gone through the coming-to-be of flesh and what goes with flesh, or of the mortal part of the soul. As it turns out, neither of these can be adequately explained without the other: not these without 61d the experiences that involve perception, nor those without these; and doing both at once is almost impossible. So we must lay down one of them first, and come back later to what we have laid down. So that the experiences may be told in order after the kinds, let what concerns body and soul come first for us. First, then, in what way we call fire hot—let us look at it like this, by considering the division and the cutting that it makes in our body. 61e For we all more or less perceive that the feeling is a sharp one.

Timaeus: The fineness of its sides, the sharpness of its angles, the smallness of its parts, and the speed of its motion—all of which make it violent and cutting, so that it sharply cuts whatever it meets,

R. G. Bury (1929) translation

Public-domain Loeb translation from the Greek (Plato in Twelve Volumes, vol. 9, Harvard University Press, 1929), in the Perseus Digital Library's digital text, with the same Stephanus pages and sections as the Greek.

61a Timaeus: Thus earth when it is not forcibly condensed is dissolved only by water; and when it is condensed it is dissolved by fire only, since no entrance is left for anything save fire. Water, again, when most forcibly massed together is dissolved by fire only, but when massed less forcibly both by fire and air, the latter acting by way of the interstices, and the former by way of the triangles; but air when forcibly condensed is dissolved by nothing save by way of its elemental triangles, and when unforced it is melted down by fire only.

As regards the classes of bodies which are compounds of earth and water, 61b so long as the water occupies the interspaces of earth which are forcibly contracted, the portions of water which approach from without find no entrance, but flow round the whole mass and leave it undissolved. But when portions of fire enter into the interspaces of the water they produce the same effects on water as water does on earth; consequently, they are the sole causes why the compound substance is dissolved and flows. And of these substances those which contain less water than earth form the whole kind known as glass, 61c and all the species of stone called fusible; while those which contain more water include all the solidified substances of the type of wax and frankincense.

And now we have explained with some fullness the Four Kinds, which are thus variegated in their shapes and combinations and permutations; but we have still to try to elucidate the Causes which account for their affective qualities. Now, first of all, the quality of sense-perceptibility must always belong to the objects under discussion; but we have not as yet described the generation of flesh and the appurtenances of flesh, nor of that portion of Soul which is mortal. But, in truth, these last cannot be adequately explained 61d apart from the subject of the sensible affections, nor the latter without the former; while to explain both simultaneously is hardly possible. Therefore, we must assume one of the two, to begin with, and return later to discuss our assumptions. In order, then, that the affective properties may be treated next after the kinds, let us presuppose the facts about body and soul.

Firstly, then, let us consider how it is that we call fire hot by noticing the way it acts 61e upon our bodies by dividing and cutting. That its property is one of sharpness we all, I suppose, perceive;

but as regards the thinness of its sides and the acuteness of its angles and the smallness of its particles and the rapidity of its motion—owing to all which properties fire is intense and keen and sharply cuts whatever it encounters,—these properties we must explain by recalling

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