Book 4, Chapter 34
Original Latin
Atque horum omnium lubidinosos esse amores videmus: philosophi sumus exorti, et auctore quidem nostro Platone, quem non iniuria Dicaearchus accusat, qui amori auctoritatem tribueremus.
72 Stoici vero et sapientem amaturum esse dicunt et amorem ipsum ‘conatum amicitiae faciendae ex pulchritudinis specie’ definiunt. qui si quis est in rerum natura sine sollicitudine, sine desiderio, sine cura, sine suspirio, sit sane; vacat enim omni libidine; haec autem de libidine oratio est. sin autem est aliquis amor, ut est certe, qui nihil absit aut non multum ab insania, qualis in Leucadia est: ‘si quidem sit quisquam deus, cui ego sim curae’—
73 at id erat deis omnibus curandum, quem ad modum hic frueretur voluptate amatoria! ‘heu me infelicem!’—nihil verius. probe et ille: ‘sanusne es, qui temere lamentare?’ sic insanus videtur etiam suis. at quas tragoedias efficit! Te, Apóllo sancte, fér opem, teque, amnípotens Neptune, ínvoco, Vosque ádeo, Venti! mundum totum se ad amorem suum sublevandum conversurum putat, Venerem unam excludit ut iniquam: ‘nam quid ego te appellem, Venus?’ eam prae lubidine negat curare quicquam: quasi vero ipse non propter lubidinem tanta flagitia et faciat et dicat.
74 —
Musean translation
Complete machine-assisted translation from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“We see that the loves of all these men are lustful; and yet we philosophers have arisen, with Plato himself as our authority—whom Dicaearchus accuses not unjustly—to lend love respectability.
72 “The Stoics even say that the wise person will fall in love, and define love itself as ‘an endeavor to form a friendship prompted by the appearance of beauty.’ If there is anything of that kind in the world without anxiety, without longing, without worry, without sighing, let it exist by all means: it is free of all lust, and our present discourse concerns lust. But if there is a kind of love—as there certainly is—which differs not at all, or not much, from insanity, such as that in the Woman of Leucas: ‘If indeed there is any god who cares for me’—
73 “Why, all the gods ought to have been concerned with how this man could enjoy the pleasures of love! ‘Ah, unhappy me!’ Nothing could be truer. And the other man rightly asks, ‘Are you sane, lamenting wildly like this?’ So even his own people think him mad. But what tragic scenes he makes!
“‘You, holy Apollo, bring help; and you, lord of rivers,“‘Neptune, I invoke, and you too, Winds!’
“He thinks he will turn the whole universe to the relief of his love. Venus alone he excludes as hostile: ‘For why should I appeal to you, Venus?’ He says that lust leaves her no care for anything else—as though he himself were not doing and saying such disgraceful things because of lust.”
74 —
Plain English translation
Complete independent machine-assisted translation directly from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“We see that all these men’s loves are full of craving. Yet we philosophers have come forward to lend love authority, with our own Plato leading us. Dicaearchus has good reason to criticize him.
72 “According to the Stoics, even the wise man will love. Their definition makes love ‘an effort toward making a friendship prompted by the sight of beauty.’ If any such thing exists without worries, longings, cares, or sighing, I have no objection. There would be no craving in it, whereas craving is what we’re discussing. But there’s certainly another love, scarcely if at all removed from madness. Think of the character in The Woman of Leucas: ‘If any god actually has concern for me’—
73 “Of course, all the gods had to concern themselves with how this man could enjoy the pleasure of love! ‘Oh, I’m unhappy!’ Nothing could be truer. The other character puts it well too: ‘Are you sane, wailing so pointlessly?’ So he seems insane even to his own people. And what tragic scenes he creates! “‘You, holy Apollo, bring help! And you, ruler of the rivers, “‘Neptune, I call on you, and on you too, Winds!’ “He thinks he’ll set the whole universe in motion to relieve his love. He leaves out only Venus, as unfair: ‘Why should I call on you, Venus?’ He says she’s too full of craving to care about anything—as though he himself weren’t doing and saying such disgraceful things because of craving.”
74 —
About this section
Book 4, Chapter 34 is part of Tusculan Disputations by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is part 144 of 189 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
Open the work page for the full contents, every edition, and the download links, or go back to Explore to browse other complete works in the Roman tradition. The reader keeps your place when you are signed in and lets you compare the original with each translation, one edition at a time.