Book 2, Chapter 5
Original Latin
Nonne verendum est igitur, si est ita, ut dicis, ne philosophiam falsa gloria exornes? quod est enim maius argumentum nihil eam prodesse, quam quosdam perfectos philosophos turpiter vivere?
13 Nullum vero id quidem argumentum est. nam ut agri non omnes frugiferi sunt qui coluntur, falsumque illud Acci: Probae étsi in segetem súnt deteriorém datae Frugés, tamen ipsae suápte natura énitent , sic animi non omnes culti fructum ferunt. atque, ut in eodem simili verser, ut ager quamvis fertilis sine cultura fructuosus esse non potest, sic sine doctrina animus; ita est utraque res sine altera debilis. cultura autem animi philosophia est; haec extrahit vitia radicitus et praeparat animos ad satus accipiendos eaque mandat is et, ut ita dicam, serit, quae adulta fructus uberrimos ferant. Agamus igitur, ut coepimus. dic, si vis, de quo disputari velis.
14 Dolorem existimo maxumum malorum omnium.
Etiamne maius quam dedecus?
Non audeo id dicere equidem, et me pudet tam cito de sententia esse deiectum.
Magis esset pudendum, si in sententia permaneres. quid enim minus est dignum quam tibi peius quicquam videri dedecore flagitio turpitudine? quae ut effugias, quis est non modo recusandus, sed non ultro adpetendus subeundus excipiendus dolor?
Ita prorsus existimo. quare ne sit sane summum malum dolor, malum certe est.
Videsne igitur, quantum breviter admonitus de doloris terrore deieceris?
15 Video plane, sed plus desidero.
Experiar equidem; sed magna res est, animoque mihi opus est non repugnante.
Habebis id quidem. ut enim heri feci, sic nunc rationem, quo ea me cumque ducet, sequar.
Musean translation
Complete machine-assisted translation from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“If things are as you say, should you not be afraid that you are adorning philosophy with a false glory? What stronger proof could there be that she does no good than the disgraceful lives of some accomplished philosophers?”
13 “That is no proof at all. Not every field that is cultivated bears a crop, and those lines of Accius are false:
“‘Though good seed has been sown in poorer soil,“‘The grain still shines by virtue of its nature.’
“Similarly, not every cultivated mind bears fruit. To stay with the same comparison: just as a field, however fertile, cannot be fruitful without cultivation, neither can the mind without instruction. Each is powerless without the other. Philosophy is the cultivation of the mind. She pulls vices up by the roots, prepares our minds to receive seed, and entrusts them with—sows in them, so to speak—what will yield the richest harvest when it matures. Let us go on, then, as we began. Tell me, if you will, what you want discussed.”
14 “I consider pain the greatest of all evils.”
“Greater even than dishonor?”
“I do not dare say that, and I am ashamed to have been driven from my position so quickly.”
“You should be more ashamed if you remained in it. What could be less worthy of you than to think anything worse than dishonor, disgrace, and moral ugliness? To escape them, what pain should you not merely refuse to reject, but willingly seek, undergo, and welcome?”
“That is exactly what I think. So let pain not be the supreme evil; it is certainly an evil.”
“Do you see, then, how much of your terror of pain you have shed after one brief reminder?”
15 “I certainly do, but I want more.”
“I shall try. But it is a great undertaking, and I need a mind that will not resist me.”
“You shall have that. As I did yesterday, I shall follow reason wherever it leads me.”
Plain English translation
Complete independent machine-assisted translation directly from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“If that’s how things stand, as you say, shouldn’t you worry that you’re giving philosophy a reputation it hasn’t earned? What stronger evidence could there be that it’s no help than the shameful lives of some fully trained philosophers?”
13 “That’s no evidence at all. Not every field that’s cultivated produces crops. Those lines of Accius are false: “‘Even when good seed is put into worse soil, “‘The crop still thrives by its own natural strength.’ “In the same way, not every trained mind bears fruit. To stay with the same comparison, even a fertile field can’t be productive without cultivation, and a mind can’t be productive without teaching. Neither can do much without the other. Philosophy is the cultivation of the mind. It pulls out faults by the roots and prepares our minds to receive seed. It entrusts things to them—plants them, so to speak—that will produce very rich crops when they grow up. So let’s carry on as we began. Tell me what you want us to discuss.”
14 “I think pain is the worst of all bad things.”
“Worse even than disgrace?”
“I wouldn’t dare say that. And I’m embarrassed that I’ve been knocked off my position so quickly.”
“You’d have more reason to be embarrassed if you stuck to it. What could be less worthy of you than to think anything worse than disgrace, wrongdoing, and shame? To escape them, what pain should we refuse? Shouldn’t we actively seek it, take it on, and accept it?”
“That’s exactly what I think. All right, pain may not be the worst thing. But it’s certainly something bad.”
“Do you see how much of your terror of pain you’ve dropped after just a brief reminder?”
15 “I certainly do. But I’d like more.”
“I’ll try. But it’s a big task, and I need you not to fight against me in your mind.”
“You can count on that. Just as I did yesterday, I’ll follow the reasoning wherever it leads me.”
About this section
Book 2, Chapter 5 is part of Tusculan Disputations by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is chapter 54 of 189 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
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