Chapter 8
Original Latin
15 Hoc loco Chrysippus aestuans falli sperat Chaldaeos ceterosque divinos, neque eos usuros esse coniunctionibus, ut ita sua percepta pronuntient: “Si quis natus est oriente Canicula, is in mari non morietur”, sed potius ita dicant: “Non et natus est quis oriente Canicula, et is in mari morietur.” O licentiam iocularem! ne ipse incidat in Diodorum, docet Chaldaeos, quo pacto eos exponere percepta oporteat. Quaero enim, si Chaldaei ita loquantur, ut negationes infinitarum coniunctionum potius quam infinita conexa ponant, cur idem medici, cur geometrae, cur reliqui facere non possint. Medicus in primis, quod erit ei perspectum in arte, non ita proponet: “Si cui venae sic moventur, is habet febrim”, sed potius illo modo: “Non et venae sic ⟨cui⟩ moventur, et is febrim non habet.” Itemque geometres non ita dicet: “In sphaera maximi orbes medii inter se dividuntur”, sed potius illo modo: “Non et sunt in sphaera maximi orbes, et ii non medii inter se dividuntur.”
16 Quid est, quod non possit isto modo ex conexo transferri ad coniunctionum negationem? Et quidem aliis modis easdem res efferre possumus. Modo dixi: “In sphaera maximi orbes medii inter se dividuntur”; possum dicere: “Si in sphaera maximi orbes erunt”, possum dicere: “Quia in sphaera maximi orbes erunt”. Multa genera sunt enuntiandi nec ullum distortius quam hoc, quo Chrysippus sperat Chaldaeos contentos Stoicorum causa fore.
Musean translation
Mouseia’s complete machine-assisted Musean translation, made directly from the surviving Latin in separate source-only tasks. Sections 1–48 and five fragments/testimonia follow Müller’s 1915 edition; lost passages remain marked. Perseus source and these derived editions CC BY-SA 4.0.
15 At this point Chrysippus, in a fever of perplexity, hopes that the Chaldeans and the other diviners can be taken in, and will not use conditionals to state their principles in this form: “If someone was born at the rising of the Dog Star, he will not die at sea.” Instead, they are to say, “It is not the case both that someone was born at the rising of the Dog Star and that he will die at sea.” What laughable license! To avoid colliding with Diodorus himself, he teaches the Chaldeans how they ought to formulate their principles. For I ask: if the Chaldeans are to speak in this way, putting forward negations of indefinite conjunctions rather than indefinite conditionals, why cannot physicians do the same? Why not geometers? Why not all the other practitioners? A physician, in particular, will not state an established finding of his art in this form: “If someone's pulse beats in this way, he has a fever.” Instead, he will say, “It is not the case both that ⟨someone's⟩ pulse beats in this way and that he has no fever.” Likewise, a geometer will not say, “In a sphere, great circles bisect one another,” but instead, “It is not the case both that there are great circles in a sphere and that they do not bisect one another.”
16 What cannot be converted in this way from a conditional into the negation of a conjunction? Indeed, we can express the same things in other ways too. I just said, “In a sphere, great circles bisect one another.” I can say, “If there are to be great circles in a sphere”; I can say, “Because there are to be great circles in a sphere.” There are many forms of statement, and none more contorted than this one, with which Chrysippus hopes the Chaldeans will content themselves for the Stoics' sake.
Plain English translation
Mouseia’s complete machine-assisted direct-Latin Plain English translation. Initial drafts used separate Latin-only tasks; later source-based editorial revisions were made by a reviewer with prior editorial access to Musean, not from its English wording. Includes all 48 sections and five fragments/testimonia, with lost passages marked. Perseus source and these derived editions CC BY-SA 4.0.
15 Chrysippus gets agitated at this point. He hopes the Chaldeans and other diviners will be fooled. He wants them to stop expressing their principles as conditionals, such as “Anyone born when the Dog Star comes up won't die at sea.” Instead they should say, “A person's birth at the Dog Star's rising and that person's death at sea cannot both be true.” What a ridiculous freedom to change the rules! To avoid running into Diodorus, he tells the Chaldeans how to formulate their own principles. But suppose they use denials of general both-and statements instead of general if-then statements. Why shouldn't doctors do that too? Or people studying geometry? Or other specialists? A doctor, in particular, could replace “A pulse beating this way means the patient has a fever” with “⟨Someone's⟩ pulse beating this way and that person having no fever cannot both be true.” A geometer could stop saying “Great circles within a sphere cut each other into equal halves.” Instead: “There being great circles within a sphere and their not cutting each other into equal halves cannot both be true.”
16 What conditional could not be changed into a denial of both-and statements like that? We can express the same matters in other forms too. A moment ago I said, “Great circles within a sphere cut each other into equal halves.” I could say, “If there are going to be great circles within a sphere.” Or I could say, “Because there are going to be great circles within a sphere.” Statements come in many forms. None is more twisted than the form Chrysippus hopes the Chaldeans will accept to accommodate the Stoics.
About this section
Chapter 8 is part of On Fate by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is chapter 8 of 25 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
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