Chapter 5
Original Latin
9 Haec disserens, qua de re agatur, et in quo causa consistat, non videt. Non enim, si alii ad alia propensiores sunt propter causas naturalis et antecedentis, idcirco etiam nostrarum voluntatum atque adpetitionum sunt causae naturales et antecedentes. Nam nihil esset in nostra potestate, si ita se res haberet. Nunc vero fatemur, acuti hebetesne, valentes inbecilline simus, non esse id in nobis. Qui autem ex eo cogi putat, ne ut sedeamus quidem aut ambulemus voluntatis esse, is non videt, quae quamque rem res consequatur. Ut enim et ingeniosi et tardi ita nascantur antecedentibus causis itemque valentes et inbecilli, non sequitur tamen, ut etiam sedere eos et ambulare et rem agere aliquam principalibus causis definitum et constitutum sit.
10 Stilponem, Megaricum philosophum, acutum sane hominem et probatum temporibus illis accepimus. Hunc scribunt ipsius familiares et ebriosum et mulierosum fuisse, neque haec scribunt vituperantes, sed potius ad laudem; vitiosam enim naturam ab eo sic edomitam et conpressam esse doctrina, ut nemo umquam vinulentum illum, nemo in eo libidinis vestigium viderit. Quid? Socraten nonne legimus quem ad modum notarit Zopyrus physiognomon, qui se profitebatur hominum mores naturasque ex corpore, oculis, vultu, fronte pernoscere? stupidum esse Socraten dixit et bardum, quod iugula concava non haberet, obstructas eas partes et obturatas esse dicebat; addidit etiam mulierosum; in quo Alcibiades cachinnum dicitur sustulisse.
Musean translation
Mouseia’s complete machine-assisted Musean translation, made directly from the surviving Latin in separate source-only tasks. Sections 1–48 and five fragments/testimonia follow Müller’s 1915 edition; lost passages remain marked. Perseus source and these derived editions CC BY-SA 4.0.
9 In arguing this way, he fails to see what the question is, or where the issue lies. The fact that natural, antecedent causes make different people more inclined toward different things does not mean that our acts of will and desire also have natural, antecedent causes. If that were so, nothing would be in our power. As it is, we admit that it does not rest with us whether we are sharp or dull, strong or weak. But anyone who thinks it follows that even sitting or walking is not a matter of choice fails to see what follows from what. People may be born clever or slow, strong or weak, through antecedent causes; it does not follow that their sitting, walking, or undertaking any action is likewise determined and settled by primary causes.
10 We have heard of Stilpo, the Megarian philosopher, a decidedly acute thinker, highly esteemed in his day. His own friends write that he was given to drink and women; they write this not to blame him, but rather to his credit. For through philosophy he had so mastered and subdued his vicious nature that no one ever saw him drunk, and no one ever saw in him a trace of lust. Again, have we not read how Zopyrus judged Socrates? Zopyrus was a physiognomist who professed to discern people's characters and natures from their bodies, eyes, faces, and foreheads. He declared Socrates stupid and dull because there were no hollows above his collarbones: those regions, he said, were obstructed and closed. He added that Socrates was given to women; at this, Alcibiades is said to have burst out laughing.
Plain English translation
Mouseia’s complete machine-assisted direct-Latin Plain English translation. Initial drafts used separate Latin-only tasks; later source-based editorial revisions were made by a reviewer with prior editorial access to Musean, not from its English wording. Includes all 48 sections and five fragments/testimonia, with lost passages marked. Perseus source and these derived editions CC BY-SA 4.0.
9 That argument misses both the subject under discussion and the point on which the case rests. Natural causes that come before an event may give people different inclinations. That does not establish natural, prior causes for our choices and desires as well. If it did, we would control nothing. Of course, we accept that we don't choose whether we are clever or slow, strong or weak. But it doesn't follow that whether we sit or walk is beyond our choice. Anyone who draws that conclusion has failed to follow the implications. Earlier causes may explain why people are born quick-witted or slow, strong or feeble. That doesn't mean primary causes have also fixed their sitting down, their walking, or any other action they undertake.
10 Accounts describe the Megarian philosopher Stilpo as a very sharp thinker, admired in his own time. His friends themselves say he was addicted to alcohol and women. They mean that as praise, not criticism. His philosophical training had brought those bad tendencies so thoroughly under control that nobody saw him intoxicated or noticed a sign of sexual excess. We also read about Zopyrus's assessment of Socrates. Zopyrus claimed to read a person's nature and character from their body, eyes, face, and forehead. That was his profession. He pronounced Socrates stupid and slow. Socrates had no hollow spaces at his collarbones, he said; those parts were blocked and closed up. He also accused him of a weakness for women. That reportedly made Alcibiades laugh out loud.
About this section
Chapter 5 is part of On Fate by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is chapter 5 of 25 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
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