Book 2, Chapter 9
Original Latin
22 Atque ego ne utilem quidem arbitror esse nobis futurarum rerum scientiam. Quae enim vita fuisset Priamo, si ab adulescentia scisset, quos eventus senectutis esset habiturus? Abeamus a fabulis, propiora videamus. Clarissimorum hominum nostrae civitatis gravissimos exitus in Consolatione collegimus. Quid igitur? ut omittamus superiores, Marcone Crasso putas utile fuisse tum, cum maxumis opibus fortunisque florebat, scire sibi interfecto Publio filio exercituque deleto trans Euphratem cum ignominia et dedecore esse pereundum? An Cn. Pompeium censes tribus suis consulatibus, tribus triumphis, maximarum rerum gloria laetaturum fuisse, si sciret se in solitudine Aegyptiorum trucidatum iri amisso exercitu, post mortem vero ea consecutura, quae sine lacrimis non possumus dicere?
23 Quid vero Caesarem putamus, si divinasset fore ut in eo senatu, quem maiore ex parte ipse cooptasset, in curia Pompeia ante ipsius Pompeii simulacrum tot centurionibus suis inspectantibus a nobilissumis civibus, partim etiam a se omnibus rebus ornatis, trucidatus ita iaceret, ut ad eius corpus non modo amicorum, sed ne servorum quidem quisquam accederet, quo cruciatu animi vitam acturum fuisse? Certe igitur ignoratio futurorum malorum utilior est quam scientia.
24 Nam illud quidem dici, praesertim a Stoicis, nullo modo potest: Non isset ad arma Pompeius, non transisset Crassus Euphratem, non suscepisset bellum civile Caesar. Non igitur fatalis exitus habuerunt; vultis autem evenire omnia fato; nihil ergo illis profuisset divinare; atque etiam omnem fructum vitae superioris perdidissent; quid enim posset iis esse laetum exitus suos cogitantibus? Ita, quoquo sese verterint Stoici, iaceat necesse est omnis eorum sollertia. Si enim id, quod eventurum est, vel hoc vel illo modo potest evenire, fortuna valet plurimum; quae autem fortuita sunt, certa esse non possunt. Sin autem certum est, quid quaque de re quoque tempore futurum sit, quid est, quod me adiuvent haruspices? <qui> cum res tristissimas portendi dixerunt,
Musean translation
Complete machine-assisted Musean translation, made directly from the Latin in separate source-only tasks and reviewed throughout against it. Both books, all 130 chapters and 282 numbered sections; no historical English translation used. Latin transcription credited to the Perseus Project under CC BY-SA 4.0, Müller’s 1915 Teubner edition.
22 “Indeed, I do not even think knowledge of the future is useful to us. What would Priam's life have been if he had known from youth the fate awaiting his old age? But let us leave mythology and look nearer home. In my Consolation I collected the most grievous deaths of our country's most illustrious men. Well then, to pass over earlier examples, do you think it would have helped Marcus Crassus, at the height of his wealth and prosperity, to know that after his son Publius was killed and his army destroyed, he himself must perish beyond the Euphrates in shame and disgrace? Or do you think Gnaeus Pompey would have rejoiced in his three consulships, his three triumphs, and the glory of his immense achievements if he had known that, after losing his army, he would be butchered in a lonely place in Egypt, and that after his death things would follow that we cannot recount without tears?
23 “And Caesar: if he had divined that in the very Senate whose membership he had himself largely chosen, in Pompey's senate house, before Pompey's own statue, with so many of his own centurions looking on, he would be butchered by citizens of the highest rank, some of whom he had heaped with every distinction, and lie there with no one—not merely no friend, but not even a slave—approaching his body, in what anguish of mind do we think he would have passed his life? Surely ignorance of future evils is more useful than knowledge.
24 “For this can certainly not be said, especially by Stoics: ‘Pompey would not have taken up arms; Crassus would not have crossed the Euphrates; Caesar would not have undertaken civil war.’ Then their deaths were not fated; yet you insist that everything happens by fate. Divination would therefore have helped them not at all; indeed, it would have robbed their earlier lives of every delight. What joy could they have found in anything with their deaths before their minds? Whichever way the Stoics turn, all their ingenuity must collapse. If a future event can happen either this way or that, fortune has enormous power; and chance events cannot be certain. But if what will happen in every matter and at every time is certain, how can the haruspices help me? After declaring that the most terrible things are portended,
Plain English translation
Complete machine-assisted Plain English translation, made independently and directly from the Latin, never from the Musean edition. Both books and every numbered section; a separate Latin-source model review covered the entire text. No human specialist review is claimed.
22 “Nor am I convinced that knowing what lies ahead does us any good. What kind of life would Priam have had if he had known from his youth what would happen to him in old age? Let us leave the myths and look at events nearer to us. In my Consolation I collected accounts of the terrible deaths of our country’s most famous men. Well then, to leave aside the earlier ones, do you think it would have helped Marcus Crassus, when he was at the height of his wealth and power, to know that his son Publius would be killed, his army destroyed, and he himself would die beyond the Euphrates in disgrace and dishonor? Or do you think Gnaeus Pompey would have enjoyed his three consulships, his three triumphs, and the fame of his great achievements, if he had known that after losing his army he would be butchered in an Egyptian wilderness? And would he have enjoyed them knowing that what came after his death would be too painful for us to describe without crying?
23 “And what of Caesar? Suppose he had known in advance that leading citizens would murder him—some of them men he had given every kind of honor. This would happen in the senate he had mostly appointed himself, in Pompey’s senate house, in front of Pompey’s own statue, as so many of Caesar’s centurions watched. Suppose he had known that he would lie there and not one of his friends, not even one of his slaves, would come near his body. What agony of mind would he have lived in? Surely, then, not knowing future troubles is better than knowing them.
24 “For no one, especially no Stoic, can possibly say, ‘Pompey would have stayed out of the fighting; Crassus would have stopped short of crossing the Euphrates; Caesar would never have started the civil war.’ In that case their deaths were not fated. But you insist that everything happens by fate. So foreseeing the future would have done them no good. They would even have lost all enjoyment of their earlier lives. What could have made them happy while they thought about their deaths? Whichever way the Stoics turn, all their cleverness must come to nothing. If a future event can turn out one way or another, chance has enormous power. And chance events cannot be certain. But if it is certain what will happen in every matter at every time, how can haruspices help me? After they say that the most terrible things are foretold,
About this section
Book 2, Chapter 9 is part of On Divination by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is chapter 67 of 130 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
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