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Book 2, Chapter 62

120 of 130 chapters in On Divination by Marcus Tullius Cicero

Original Latin

127 Iam vero quid opus est circumitione et anfractu, ut sit utendum interpretibus somniorum potius, quam derecto deus, siquidem nobis consulebat, ‘Hoc facito, hoc ne feceris’ diceret idque visum vigilanti potius quam dormienti daret?

Iam vero quis dicere audeat vera omnia esse somnia? ‘Aliquot somnia vera’, inquit Ennius, ‘sed omnia noenum necesse est’. Quae est tandem ista distinctio? quae vera, quae falsa habet? et, si vera a deo mittuntur, falsa unde nascuntur? nam si ea quoque divina, quid inconstantius deo? quid inscitius autem est quam mentes mortalium falsis et mendacibus visis concitare? sin vera visa divina sunt, falsa autem et inania humana, quae est ista designandi licentia, ut hoc deus, hoc natura fecerit potius quam aut omnia deus, quod negatis, aut omnia natura? quodquoniam illud negatis, hoc necessario confitendum est.

128 Naturam autem eam dico, qua numquam animus insistens agitatione et motu esse vacuus potest. Is cum languore corporis nec membris uti nec sensibus potest, incidit in visa varia et incerta ex reliquiis, ut ait Aristoteles, inhaerentibus earum rerum, quas vigilans gesserit aut cogitaverit; quarum perturbatione mirabiles interdum existunt species somniorum; quae si alia falsa, alia vera, qua nota internoscantur, scire sane velim. Si nulla est, quid istos interpretes audiamus? sin quaepiam est, aveo audire, quae sit; sed haerebunt.

Musean translation

Complete machine-assisted Musean translation, made directly from the Latin in separate source-only tasks and reviewed throughout against it. Both books, all 130 chapters and 282 numbered sections; no historical English translation used. Latin transcription credited to the Perseus Project under CC BY-SA 4.0, Müller’s 1915 Teubner edition.

127 “Again, what need is there of circuitous paths and twists, forcing us to employ interpreters of dreams? If the god was concerned for us, why not say directly, ‘Do this; do not do that,’ and give the vision to someone awake rather than asleep?

“And who would dare say that all dreams are true? ‘Some dreams are true,’ says Ennius, ‘but not all need be.’ What, then, is the distinction? Which does he regard as true, which as false? If the true ones are sent by a god, where do the false ones come from? If those too are divine, what could be more inconsistent than a god? And what could be more foolish than to agitate mortal minds with false, lying visions? But if true visions are divine while false and empty ones are human, what license is this to declare that the god produced one and nature the other, rather than that the god produced them all—which you deny—or nature produced them all? Since you deny the former, you must admit the latter.

128 “By nature I mean that condition in which the mind never stands still and can never be free of activity and movement. When the body’s weariness prevents it from using the limbs or senses, it falls into varied, uncertain visions, arising, as Aristotle says, from lingering traces of things it did or thought about while awake. Their confusion sometimes produces marvelous dream images. If some of these are false and others true, I should very much like to know by what mark they can be distinguished. If there is none, why should we listen to these interpreters? If there is one, I am eager to hear what it is; but they will be at a loss.

Plain English translation

Complete machine-assisted Plain English translation, made independently and directly from the Latin, never from the Musean edition. Both books and every numbered section; a separate Latin-source model review covered the entire text. No human specialist review is claimed.

127 “And why do we need such a roundabout, winding path that we have to use dream interpreters? If a god cared for us, wouldn't he simply tell us, ‘Do this; don't do that,’ and show it to us when we were awake, not in our sleep?

“Who would venture to claim that every dream tells the truth? Ennius says, ‘A few dreams are true; that doesn't mean they all must be.’ Then what is the basis for that distinction? Which dreams belong in the true group, and which in the false? If a god sends the true dreams, what produces the false ones? If those are divine too, who could be less consistent than this god? What could show worse judgment than stirring human minds with false, lying visions? But suppose true visions are divine and false, empty ones human. What right have you to divide things up like that, saying a god made this and nature made that? Why not say either that a god made all of them, which you deny, or that nature made all of them? Since you deny the first, you must admit the second.

128 “By nature I mean the mind's inability ever to stop and be free from activity and movement. When the body is tired and the mind cannot use its limbs or senses, it falls into shifting, uncertain visions. As Aristotle says, these come from lingering traces of what it did or thought while awake. The confusion of these traces sometimes produces strange dream images. If some are false and others true, I would very much like to know what mark distinguishes them. Without any such mark, what makes these interpreters worth hearing? If they have one, I want very much to hear them identify it. But they will get stuck.

About this section

Book 2, Chapter 62 is part of On Divination by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is chapter 120 of 130 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.

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