Book 1, Chapter 8
Original Latin
Ecquid ergo intellegis, quantum mali de humana condicione deieceris?
15 Quonam modo?
Quia, si mors etiam mortuis miserum esset, infinitum quoddam et sempiternum malum haberemus in vita; nunc video calcem, ad quam cum sit decursum, nihil sit praeterea extimescendum. sed tu mihi videris Epicharmi, acuti nec insulsi hominis ut Siculi, sententiam sequi.
Quam? non enim novi.
Dicam, si potero, Latine. scis enim me Graece loqui in Latino sermone non plus solere quam in Graeco Latine.
Et recte quidem. sed quae tandem est Epicharmi ista sententia?Émori noló, sed me esse mórtuum nihil aéstimo.
Iam adgnosco Graecum. sed quoniam coëgisti, ut concederem, qui mortui essent, eos miseros non esse, perfice, si potes, ut ne moriendum quidem esse miserum putem.
16 Iam istuc quidem nihil negotii est, sed ego maiora molior.
Quo modo hoc nihil negotii est? aut quae sunt tandem ista maiora?
Quia, quoniam post mortem mali nihil est, ne mors quidem est malum, cui proxumum tempus est post mortem, in quo mali nihil esse concedis: ita ne moriendum quidem esse malum est; id est enim perveniendum esse ad id, quod non esse malum confitemur.
Uberius ista, quaeso. haec enim spinosiora, prius ut confitear me cogunt quam ut adsentiar. sed quae sunt ea, quae dicis te maiora moliri?
Ut doceam, si possim, non modo malum non esse, sed bonum etiam esse mortem.
Non postulo id quidem, aveo tamen audire. ut enim non efficias quod vis, tamen, mors ut malum non sit, efficies. sed nihil te interpellabo; continentem orationem audire malo.
Quid, si te rogavero aliquid?
17 nonne respondebis?
Superbum id quidem est, sed, nisi quid necesse erit, malo non roges.
Musean translation
Complete machine-assisted translation from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“Do you understand, then, how much evil you have removed from the human condition?”
15 “How?”
“Because if death were a misery even for the dead, we would face an infinite and everlasting evil in life. As things stand, I see a finishing line: once we have run to it, there is nothing more to fear. But you seem to me to follow the view of Epicharmus, a sharp and witty man, as one would expect of a Sicilian.”
“What view? I do not know it.”
“I shall put it into Latin if I can. As you know, I am no more in the habit of speaking Greek in a Latin conversation than Latin in a Greek one.”
“And quite right too. But what is this saying of Epicharmus?”
“‘I do not want to die, but being dead means nothing to me.’”
“Now I recognize the Greek. But since you have forced me to concede that the dead are not miserable, go on, if you can, and make me think that even having to die is no misery.”
16 “That is no difficulty at all, but I am attempting something greater.”
“How is it no difficulty? And what is this greater thing?”
“Since there is no evil after death, death itself is not an evil either: it is immediately followed by the time after death, in which you concede there is no evil. So having to die is not an evil either; it means having to reach what we acknowledge is no evil.”
“Explain that more fully, please. These thorny arguments force me to concede before they win my assent. But what is this greater thing you say you are attempting?”
“To show, if I can, not only that death is no evil, but that it is actually a good.”
“I do not ask that much, but I am eager to hear it. Even if you fail to achieve what you wish, you will still establish that death is no evil. But I shall not interrupt you at all; I would rather hear an uninterrupted discourse.”
“What if I ask you something?
17 “Will you not answer?”
“It would be arrogant not to, but unless something makes it necessary, I would rather you did not ask.”
Plain English translation
Complete independent machine-assisted translation directly from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“Do you realize how much you’ve taken away from what’s bad about the human condition?”
15 “In what way?”
“If death were something unhappy for dead people too, we’d face something bad in life that had no limit and lasted forever. Now I see a finish line. Once we’ve run to it, there’s nothing more to be afraid of. But you seem to agree with a saying of Epicharmus. He was a sharp man, and quite witty, as you’d expect from a Sicilian.”
“What saying? I don’t know it.”
“I’ll put it into Latin if I can. You know I don’t usually speak Greek in a Latin conversation any more than I speak Latin in a Greek one.”
“Quite right too. But what is this saying of Epicharmus?”“I don’t want to die, but being dead means nothing to me.”
“Now I recognize the Greek. But since you’ve made me admit that dead people aren’t unhappy, finish the job, if you can. Get me to believe that having to die isn’t unhappy either.”
16 “That’s no trouble at all, but I’m aiming for something bigger.”
“How is that no trouble? And just what is this bigger thing?”
“Since there’s nothing bad after death, death itself isn’t bad either. What comes immediately after it is the time after death, and you’ve admitted there’s nothing bad then. So having to die isn’t bad either: it means having to arrive at something we agree isn’t bad.”
“Please go into that more fully. These thorny little arguments force an admission out of me before they convince me. But what’s this bigger thing you say you’re aiming for?”
“To show, if I can, that death isn’t just not bad, but is actually good.”
“I don’t ask that much, but I’m eager to hear it. Even if you don’t achieve what you want, you’ll still show that death isn’t bad. But I won’t interrupt you at all. I’d rather hear a continuous speech.”
“What if I ask you something?
17 “Won’t you answer?”
“It would be rude not to. But unless it’s necessary, I’d rather you didn’t ask.”
About this section
Book 1, Chapter 8 is part of Tusculan Disputations by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is part 8 of 189 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
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