Mouseiaan open library of the ancient world

Book 1, Chapter 25

25 of 189 parts in Tusculan Disputations by Marcus Tullius Cicero

Original Latin

60 Quorsus igitur haec spectat oratio? quae sit illa vis et unde sit, intellegendum puto. non est certe nec cordis nec sanguinis nec cerebri nec atomorum; animae sit ignisne nescio, nec me pudet ut istos fateri nescire quod nesciam: illud, si ulla alia de re obscura adfirmare possem, sive anima sive ignis sit animus, eum iurarem esse divinum. quid enim, obsecro te, terrane tibi hoc nebuloso et caliginoso caelo aut sata aut concreta videtur tanta vis memoriae? si quid sit hoc non vides, at quale sit vides; si ne id quidem, at quantum sit profecto vides.

61 quid igitur? utrum capacitatem aliquam in animo putamus esse, quo tamquam in aliquod vas ea quae meminimus infundantur? absurdum id quidem; qui enim fundus aut quae talis animi figura intellegi potest aut quae tanta omnino capacitas? an inprimi quasi ceram animum putamus, et esse memoriam signatarum rerum in mente vestigia? quae possunt verborum, quae rerum ipsarum esse vestigia, quae porro tam inmensa magnitudo, quae illa tam multa possit effingere?

Quid?

62 illa vis quae tandem est quae investigat occulta, quae inventio atque excogitatio dicitur? ex hacne tibi terrena mortalique natura et caduca concreta ea videtur? aut qui primus, quod summae sapientiae Pythagorae visum est, omnibus rebus imposuit nomina? aut qui dissipatos homines congregavit et ad societatem vitae convocavit, aut qui sonos vocis, qui infiniti videbantur, paucis litterarum notis terminavit, aut qui errantium stellarum cursus praegressiones insti[tu]tiones notavit? omnes magni; etiam superiores, qui fruges, qui vestitum, qui tecta, qui cultum vitae, qui praesidia contra feras invenerunt, a quibus mansuefacti et exculti a necessariis artificiis ad elegantiora defluximus. nam et auribus oblectatio magna parta est inventa et temperata varietate et natura sonorum, et astra suspeximus cum ea quae sunt infixa certis locis, tum illa non re sed vocabulo errantia, quorum conversiones omnisque motus qui animo vidit, is docuit similem animum suum eius esse, qui ea fabricatus esset in caelo.

63 nam cum Archimedes lunae solis quinque errantium motus in sphaeram inligavit, effecit idem quod ille, qui in Timaeo mundum aedificavit, Platonis deus, ut tarditate et celeritate dissimillimos motus una regeret conversio. quod si in hoc mundo fieri sine deo non potest, ne in sphaera quidem eosdem motus Archimedes sine divino ingenio potuisset imitari.

Musean translation

Complete machine-assisted translation from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.

60 “Where, then, does this discussion lead? I think we must understand what that power is and where it comes from. Certainly it does not belong to the heart, the blood, the brain, or atoms. Whether it belongs to breath or fire I do not know; unlike those thinkers, I am not ashamed to admit that I do not know what I do not know. But if I could affirm anything about any obscure subject, I would swear to this: whether the soul is breath or fire, it is divine. Tell me, I beg you: does so great a power of memory seem to you to have been sown in the earth or compounded from it beneath this cloudy, darkened sky? If you do not see what it is, at least you see what it is like; if not even that, you certainly see how great it is.

61 “Well then? Do we think there is some capacity in the soul into which, as into a vessel, the things we remember are poured? That is absurd. What bottom, what such shape can the soul be conceived to have, or what capacity so vast? Or do we think the soul receives impressions like wax, and that memory consists of traces of things stamped upon the mind? What traces can there be of words, or of the things themselves? And what immense expanse could there be to reproduce so many things?

“What?

62 “What, after all, is that power which searches out hidden things, which is called invention and discovery? Does it seem to you to have been compounded from this earthly, mortal, perishable nature? Or what of the man who first gave names to everything, an act Pythagoras considered supremely wise? Or the man who brought scattered people together and called them into a shared life; or the man who confined the seemingly infinite sounds of the voice within a few letter signs; or the man who noted the courses, forward movements, and stops of the wandering stars? All were great; greater still were those who discovered crops, clothing, shelter, the refinements of life, and defenses against wild beasts. Tamed and cultivated by them, we passed from the arts of necessity to the more graceful arts. For great delight was won for the ears when the variety and nature of sounds were discovered and harmonized; and we looked up at the stars, both those fixed in particular places and those that wander in name, though not in fact. Whoever saw in his mind their revolutions and all their motions showed that his own soul resembled the soul of the one who had fashioned them in heaven.

63 “For when Archimedes enclosed in a sphere the movements of the moon, the sun, and the five wandering stars, he achieved the same thing as the god of Plato who built the universe in the Timaeus: a single revolution governed movements utterly different in slowness and speed. If this cannot happen in the universe without a god, neither could Archimedes have imitated those same motions in a sphere without divine genius.”

Plain English translation

Complete independent machine-assisted translation directly from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.

60 “Here’s what I’m getting at in this discussion: we need to grasp the identity and origin of that power. We certainly can’t attribute it to heart, blood, brain, or atoms. Whether breath or fire accounts for it, I don’t know. Those people may be ashamed to acknowledge ignorance; I’m not ashamed to say I don’t know something when I don’t. But if there’s any obscure subject on which I could make a firm assertion, I’d swear to this: a soul made of either breath or fire is divine. Tell me, please, could memory’s enormous power have been sown in the earth, or put together from earth, beneath this murky, cloudy sky? You may not see its identity, but you do see its character. And failing even that, you certainly recognize its greatness.

61 “What then? Do we think there’s some storage space in the soul, so that what we remember is poured into it like something into a jar? That’s absurd. What sort of bottom or shape could we imagine the soul having? How could it possibly hold so much? Or do we think the soul takes impressions like wax, and that memory consists of traces left in the mind by things stamped on it? What traces could words leave, or the things themselves? And how unimaginably large would it have to be to take the impressions of so many things?

“And another thing:

62 “And this ability to uncover what’s hidden—the power we call discovery and invention—what is it? Can you believe it was assembled from matter as earthly, mortal, and short-lived as this? Think of whoever first named everything, a deed Pythagoras thought showed the highest wisdom. Or think of the person who brought scattered humans together and invited them into a common life; the one who reduced the seemingly endless sounds of speech to a small set of letter signs; the one who recorded the wandering stars’ paths, forward movements, and stops. Great people, all of them. Greater still were the discoverers of crops, clothes, shelter, civilized comforts, and defenses against wild beasts. They made us tame and civilized; we then went on from the crafts that supply our needs to the more refined arts. The discovery of the differing characters and kinds of sound, and their combination, brought our ears enormous enjoyment. We also raised our eyes to the stars: some stay fixed in certain spots, while others are only called wanderers and don’t really wander. Whoever mentally grasped all their movements and revolutions proved that his mind resembled the mind that made them in heaven.

63 “Archimedes built the movements of the moon, the sun, and the five wandering stars into a sphere. In doing so he matched Plato’s god, the builder of the universe in the Timaeus. Both made one rotation control movements of very different speeds, some slow and some fast. Such a thing can’t happen in the universe without a god. Likewise, it took divine talent for Archimedes to reproduce those movements in his sphere.”

About this section

Book 1, Chapter 25 is part of Tusculan Disputations by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is part 25 of 189 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.

Open the work page for the full contents, every edition, and the download links, or go back to Explore to browse other complete works in the Roman tradition. The reader keeps your place when you are signed in and lets you compare the original with each translation, one edition at a time.

Download the complete work as JSON · Retex Markdown