Book 1, Chapter 11
Original Latin
Nisi quae me forte fugiunt, haec sunt fere de animo sententiae. Democritum enim, magnum illum quidem virum, sed levibus et rotundis corpusculis efficientem animum concursu quodam fortuito, omittamus; nihil est enim apud istos, quod non atomorum turba conficiat.
23 Harum sententiarum quae vera sit, deus aliqui viderit; quae veri simillima, magna quaestio est. utrum igitur inter has sententias diiudicare malumus an ad propositum redire?
Cuperem equidem utrumque, si posset, sed est difficile confundere. quare si, ut ista non disserantur, liberari mortis metu possumus, id agamus; sin id non potest nisi hac quaestione animorum explicata, nunc, si videtur, hoc, illud alias.
Quod malle te intellego, id puto esse commodius; efficiet enim ratio ut, quaecumque vera sit earum sententiarum quas exposui, mors aut malum non sit aut sit bonum potius.
24 nam si cor aut sanguis aut cerebrum est animus, certe, quoniam est corpus, interibit cum reliquo corpore; si anima est, fortasse dissipabitur; si ignis, extinguetur; si est Aristoxeni harmonia, dissolvetur. quid de Dicaearcho dicam, qui nihil omnino animum dicat esse? his sententiis omnibus nihil post mortem pertinere ad quemquam potest; pariter enim cum vita sensus amittitur; non sentientis autem nihil est ullam in partem quod intersit. reliquorum sententiae spem adferunt, si te hoc forte delectat, posse animos, cum e corporibus excesserint, in caelum quasi in domicilium suum pervenire.
Me vero delectat, idque primum ita esse velim, deinde, etiamsi non sit, mihi persuaderi tamen velim.
Quid tibi ergo opera nostra opus est? num eloquentia Platonem superare possumus? evolve diligenter eius eum librum, qui est de animo: amplius quod desideres nihil erit.
Feci mehercule, et quidem saepius; sed nescio quo modo, dum lego, adsentior, cum posui librum et mecum ipse de inmortalitate animorum coepi cogitare, adsensio omnis illa elabitur.
Quid?
25 hoc dasne aut manere animos post mortem aut morte ipsa interire?
Do vero.
Quid, si maneant?
Beatos esse concedo.
Sin intereant?
Non esse miseros, quoniam ne sint quidem; iam istuc coacti a te paulo ante concessimus.
Quo modo igitur aut cur mortem malum tibi videri dicis? quae aut beatos nos efficiet animis manentibus aut non miseros sensu carentis.
Musean translation
Complete machine-assisted translation from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“Unless something happens to have escaped me, these are broadly the views about the soul. Let us leave aside Democritus, a great man, certainly, but one who makes the soul out of smooth, round particles meeting by some chance collision. For his school has nothing that a swarm of atoms cannot produce.
23 “Which of these views is true, some god may know; which is most like the truth is a great question. Would we rather decide between these views, then, or return to our subject?”
“I should like both, if possible, but it is difficult to combine them. So if we can be freed from the fear of death without discussing these questions, let us do that. But if freedom from that fear is impossible without settling this question about souls, let us deal with this now, if you agree, and the other matter another time.”
“I think the course I understand you to prefer is the more convenient. For reason will establish that, whichever of the views I have set out is true, death is either no evil or is, rather, a good.
24 “For if the soul is heart, blood, or brain, then certainly, being body, it will perish with the rest of the body. If it is breath, it will perhaps disperse; if fire, it will be extinguished; if Aristoxenus’s harmony, it will be dissolved. What need I say of Dicaearchus, who says there is no soul at all? On all these views, nothing after death can concern anyone, for sensation is lost along with life, and nothing can make any difference, one way or the other, to someone without sensation. The views of the remaining thinkers offer the hope, if that happens to please you, that souls, once they have left their bodies, can reach heaven as their own home.”
“It certainly pleases me. First I should like it to be so; and then, even if it is not, I should still like to be persuaded that it is.”
“Then what need have you of our efforts? Can we surpass Plato in eloquence? Read his book on the soul attentively: there will be nothing further to desire.”
“By Hercules, I have, and more than once. But somehow, while I read, I agree; when I put the book down and begin to think to myself about the immortality of souls, all that assent slips away.”
“Well?
25 “Do you grant that souls either remain after death or perish in death itself?”
“I do.”
“What if they remain?”
“I grant that they are happy.”
“And if they perish?”
“They are not miserable, since they do not even exist. You forced that concession from me a little while ago.”
“How, then, or why, do you say death seems an evil to you? It will either make us happy, if our souls remain, or leave us without misery, if we lose sensation.”
Plain English translation
Complete independent machine-assisted translation directly from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“Unless something has slipped my mind, those are roughly the views about the soul. Let’s leave out Democritus. He’s certainly a great man, but he makes the soul out of a chance collision of tiny, smooth, round bodies. For people of his school, there’s nothing that a swarm of atoms doesn’t produce.
23 “Which of these views is true? Some god may know. Which is most likely to be true is a big question. So would we rather decide between these views or go back to our subject?”
“I’d like to do both, if we could, but it’s hard to mix them. So if we can get free of the fear of death without discussing those questions, let’s do that. But if we can’t do it without settling this question about souls, let’s discuss that now, if you agree, and the other thing another time.”
“I think your preference is the better course. Reason will show that, whichever of the views I’ve set out is true, death either isn’t bad or is actually good.
24 “If the soul is heart or blood or brain, it’s certainly a body and will die with the rest of the body. If it’s breath, perhaps it will scatter; if fire, it will go out; if Aristoxenus’ harmony, it will come apart. What can I say about Dicaearchus, who says there’s no soul at all? On all these views, nothing after death can matter to anyone. Sensation goes away along with life. And if someone has no sensation, nothing matters to them in any way. The remaining views offer hope, if you happen to like the idea, that souls can leave their bodies and reach the sky, as though going home.”
“I certainly like it. First, I’d like it to be true; next, even if it isn’t, I’d still like to be convinced it is.”
“Then what do you need my help for? Can I outdo Plato in eloquence? Read his book about the soul carefully, all the way through. There’ll be nothing more you want.”
“By Hercules, I’ve done that, and more than once. Somehow, though, while I’m reading, I agree. When I’ve put the book down and start thinking by myself about the soul’s immortality, all that agreement slips away.”
“Well?
25 “Do you grant this: either souls survive death, or death itself destroys them?”
“Yes, I do.”
“What if they survive?”
“I grant that they’re happy.”
“And if they’re destroyed?”
“They aren’t unhappy, since they don’t even exist. You forced us to concede that point a little while ago.”
“Then how or why can you say death seems bad to you? It will either make us happy, if our souls survive, or leave us without sensation and therefore not unhappy.”
About this section
Book 1, Chapter 11 is part of Tusculan Disputations by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is part 11 of 189 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
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