Book 3, Chapter 29
Original Latin
Contra dicuntur haec: quis tam demens, ut sua voluntate maereat? natura adfert dolorem, cui quidem Crantor, inquiunt, vester cedendum putat; premit enim atque instat, nec resisti potest. itaque Oileus ille apud Sophoclem, qui Telamonem antea de Aiacis morte consolatus esset, is cum audivisset de suo, fractus est. de cuius commutata mente sic dicitur:Nec véro tanta praéditus sapiéntiaQuisquám est, qui aliorum aerúmnam dictis ádlevansNon ídem, cum fortúna mutata ímpetumConvértat, clade súbita frangatúr sua,Ut ílla ad alios dícta et praecepta éxcidant.haec cum disputant, hoc student efficere, naturae obsisti nullo modo posse; idem tamen fatentur graviores aegritudines suscipi, quam natura cogat. quae est igitur amentia—? ut nos quoque idem ab illis requiramus.
72 Sed plures sunt causae suscipiendi doloris: primum illa opinio mali, quo viso atque persuaso aegritudo insequitur necessario. deinde etiam gratum mortuis se facere, si graviter eos lugeant, arbitrantur. accedit superstitio muliebris quaedam; existumant enim diis inmortalibus se facilius satis facturos, si eorum plaga perculsi adflictos se et stratos esse fateantur. sed haec inter se quam repugnent, plerique non vident. laudant enim eos, qui aequo animo moriantur; qui alterius mortem aequo animo ferant, eos putant vituperandos. quasi fieri ullo modo possit, quod in amatorio sermone dici solet, ut quisquam plus alterum diligat quam se.
73 praeclarum illud est et, si quaeris, rectum quoque et verum, ut eos, qui nobis carissimi esse debeant, aeque ac nosmet ipsos amemus; ut vero plus, fieri nullo pacto potest. ne optandum quidem est in amicitia, ut me ille plus quam se, ego illum plus quam me; perturbatio vitae, si ita sit, atque officiorum omnium consequatur.
Musean translation
Complete machine-assisted translation from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“Against this people say: ‘Who is so mad as to grieve of his own free will? Nature brings pain, to which even your Crantor thinks we must yield; for it presses and bears down upon us, and cannot be resisted.’ Thus that Oileus in Sophocles, who had earlier consoled Telamon for Ajax’s death, was broken when he heard of his own son’s death. Of his change of mind it is said:“‘No one is endowed with wisdom so great“‘That, easing others’ hardships with his words,“‘He does not, when fortune turns her onslaught“‘Toward him, break beneath his own sudden loss,“‘Forgetting all he said and taught to others.’“When they argue this way, they seek to establish that nature cannot possibly be resisted. Yet they also admit that people take on distress heavier than nature requires. What madness, then, is this—? Let us ask them that same question in our turn.
72 “But there are several causes for taking on pain. First is that opinion of evil: when an evil is perceived and firmly believed in, distress necessarily follows. Next, people think they gratify the dead by mourning them deeply. A certain womanish superstition is added: they think they will more readily satisfy the immortal gods if, struck by their blow, they acknowledge themselves afflicted and prostrate. Most people fail to see how contradictory these things are. They praise those who meet death calmly, but think those who bear another’s death calmly deserve blame—as though it were possible, as is often said in lovers’ talk, for someone to love another more than himself.
73 “It is splendid—and, if you ask me, right and true as well—to love those who ought to be dearest to us as much as ourselves; but to love them more is utterly impossible. Nor should we even wish in friendship that my friend should love me more than himself, or I him more than myself. If it were so, confusion of life and of all our duties would follow.”
Plain English translation
Complete independent machine-assisted translation directly from the Latin. Latin transcription by the Perseus Project, Trustees of Tufts University, CC BY-SA 4.0.
“People argue against this: ‘Who’s so crazy as to grieve willingly? Nature brings pain.’ They say even our Crantor thinks we must yield to it, because it presses and bears down on us and can’t be resisted. In Sophocles, Oileus had earlier consoled Telamon about Ajax’s death. But when he heard about his own son’s death, he broke down. His changed state of mind is described like this:“‘No one is so endowed with wisdom“‘That, after easing others’ misery with words,“‘He won’t, when fortune changes and turns its attack“‘Against him, be broken by his own sudden disaster,“‘Forgetting the words and advice he gave to others.’“When they argue like this, they aim to establish that nature can’t be resisted at all. Yet they admit that people take on heavier distress than nature compels them to. So what sort of madness is this—? Let’s put the same question back to them.
72 “Pain is taken on for several reasons. The first is believing something evil has happened. Once someone sees it that way and accepts that judgment, distress necessarily follows. Another is the idea that deep mourning is a kindness to the dead. Add a sort of womanish superstition: after the immortal gods strike their blow, people imagine they’ll satisfy them more readily by acknowledging themselves beaten down and prostrate. Few notice the clash between these convictions. They admire someone who meets their own death calmly, but censure the same calmness about someone else’s death. As if the lovers’ talk could ever come true, and anyone could love someone else more than they love themselves!
73 “Loving those who ought to be closest to us on equal terms with ourselves is admirable—and right and true, too, if you ask me. Exceeding that love of ourselves, however, is simply impossible. Friends shouldn’t even want such an arrangement: that you should love me above yourself, and I should love you above myself. That would throw both life and all its duties into confusion.”
About this section
Book 3, Chapter 29 is part of Tusculan Disputations by Marcus Tullius Cicero. This page sets the Latin original beside 2 direct-source translations, so any line can be checked against the source. It is chapter 105 of 189 in the work, which is kept in the Roman tradition.
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